pARTicipe! | Experimenting with sound (interview)

Lasso: Heike and Ernst, what do you remember about this special context, where you suddenly become part of a group's living environment?

Heike: When you work as an artist in a school or nursery, you are often assigned the role of the alternative teacher. Here, we took on a more undefined role, which I find a pleasant way of working. For the children, it may not always have been clear what exactly we were, but they were open towards us. And the atmosphere was also very good, which I think was precisely because we were in their home.

Ernst: For me, the strength of this residency week also lay in the fact that you get close to their daily rhythm and are allowed to be part of it. It quickly becomes clear that you are a guest, which is only logical. You are with young children who suddenly take on the role of host or hostess and who are also searching for their place within that role. To put it bluntly, we are the ones who are 'invading'. And then you sometimes wonder whether you are welcome, and especially what you can do to be welcome.

Seren, the final evaluation with the supervisors showed that you look back positively on the residency week and its impact on the children. How do you think the children experienced having artists in their home for a week?

Seren: The children seemed to enjoy being stimulated by the artists and different materials after school. Occasionally, however, some of them had had an emotionally difficult day, which meant they weren't in the right frame of mind. They also dared to be a bit more daring, precisely because the project was taking place where they live. As supervisors, we have to be quicker to pick up on that and try to encourage participation. But Heike and Ernst did not impose any obligations, which I thought was great. It was okay not to feel like it sometimes, and I think that gave the children more peace of mind. In the end, they often found their way back to the top on their own. After the residency, we noticed that the children kept talking about it, that they were looking for more.

Can you tell us a little more about how you worked, Heike and Ernst?

Ernst: I quickly realised that it wasn't about quantity, as in 'how many children found their way back to the top today?'. It was more about finding a quality where you build on what you left behind the day before. The intensity of such a week also contributed positively to this. You could actually work very quickly and give the children feedback on the previous day's recordings.

Heike: It was continuous live composing, precisely because we didn't know which children would join on which day. That was quite intensive and challenging. But in ten years of teaching at an art school, I've learned that it's not personal when children join or leave. There can be various reasons for this. You also learn to sense whether you still need to find out what was going on or whether you can just leave it at that.

Ernst: Because you get to know the children very quickly during a week like that, I sometimes tried to think about how I could convince them to participate. Heike deliberately did not do that. I don't know what the best approach is, but we both had a different style in that respect. I was able to put that into perspective quickly, because ultimately it doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality of our work. The fact that someone doesn't seem to want to participate when you first suggest something doesn't necessarily mean that they're not interested. Sometimes children decide to get involved at a later stage, and you have to be willing to allow that.

Heike: The less explanation we gave with words, the easier it became to engage and invite the children, without having to convince them. That indirect and subtle guidance worked well. It also ties in with what interests me as a performance artist: I'm not going to explain to my audience what I'm going to do. I try to arouse their interest by devoting myself to a particular action in the space. Your artistic choices have to transcend language.

Ernst: That's a balance you have to find. I, for example, am more inclined to explain things. Sometimes that's good, but sometimes it has the opposite effect.

If you had to give other artists one tip for working with this target group, what would you say?

Seren: Start from scratch with your group and don't ask about their background in advance. When interns start with us, they often receive a profile of the children. They learn, for example, who you can and cannot touch, who is sensitive to what... We didn't do that with the artists, and I think that was a real plus.

Ernst: That's important to me too. I'm going to simplify things a bit here, but you could call it patronising care. I often see carers and social workers being overly protective and restrictive, sometimes with the best of intentions. In that sense, I did think it was good that we weren't given a profile, as it forced us to try and get a feel for things ourselves.

Heike: By not labelling children from the outset, you also give them the opportunity to adjust their self-image (which is still very much being formed at that young age). And that can lead to some wonderful surprises.

What do you think were the success factors in this project?

Seren: During the sessions, I was really searching for my role and trying to figure out to what extent I could let go of being a supervisor. I felt a lot of freedom from the artists in that regard. They never made me feel like I had to act as a supervisor, which allowed me to really enjoy myself and let go for a while. Maybe that led to a bit more chaos at times, but in itself it was also interesting to allow space for that.

Ernst: That chaos is okay, and it's part of every home, anyway.

Heike: Unfortunately, that chaos is not always allowed. When I was first invited to work in primary schools as an artist, I was immediately advised to shout regularly. For the sake of authority, because otherwise there would be chaos. In the world we all know, in reality, things can get loud and chaotic. But after a while, the focus returns and everything goes back to normal. And that can be done in other ways than suddenly shouting: 'Everyone be quiet now!'. You have to dare to allow that disturbance, those sounds, that noise. Just like extreme silence. In that sense, I think it's great that Seren dared to break away from that, because that's often the biggest nuisance.

Are there things you would do differently in the future?

Heike: Would I do anything differently? I would especially remember what Cie sQueezz and Lasso offered as support. I realised the importance of a framework once again. So much energy goes into connecting and mediating. And when you have to take all that on yourself as an artist, there’s less room for focus on what you want to present artistically. Especially in such a short time. In the past, I've had bad experiences with projects where there was no framework. You build something with children and establish a good connection. But in the end, you realise that it wasn't really what the teachers or supervisors had expected, or that they found it 'too chaotic'.

Ernst: I've had that experience as well. There are certain things in our practice that adults don't understand at all — especially if they weren't part of the process, and they judge us afterwards . Whereas the children you work with did understand. That's why the structure that Lasso and Cie Squeezz provided was really good.

Perhaps a nice way to conclude: the supervisors of the residential group were very enthusiastic after the residency week and are keen to embark on a new creative adventure with the children in the future. How does that make you feel?

Heike: Yes, that's the best thing you could dream of.

Ernst: When you hear that your work creates openness for a different way of thinking and approaching things. The realisation that you have been able to trigger that is a real compliment.